Gold Zeropark Live Case Study (from $0 to $XXX per day)

[servandosilva]

@servandosilva absolutely Golden thread, constantly giving to the AM community, it is amazing to see. So thank you.

couple of questions:
a) Geo - are they Tier 1,2,3
b) On Zeropark do you look at the position? and do you find the quality of traffic is better with the higher bids?
c) can we have a heads up on the vertical?

and thanks once again!

Thanks man.

a) I think I mentioned this but geos are tier 2 and tier 3 for this test. Tier 1 can work very well to so it's not something I avoid.

b) Yes and yes. Right now I'm moving between the 2nd and 1st bid for this case study in all the campaigns I'm testing. Bid number 3 also works if the geo has a lot of volume. I have had some profitable campaigns being Bid 4 or 5 but it was not common.

c) I mentioned what's working after checking Adplexity. The verticals are sweepstakes, utility apps and all around that. Those are the same I launched.

 

[ironbull]

Hey @servandosilva amazing post! Really looking forward for the second update.

I am curious about the bidding. Do you always launch a campaign being one of the TOP 3 bidders for that targeting? As you mentioned you're not profitable so often being below the 3rd position.

Let's say you have an offer with a payout of $1 and you are launching in the US where in order to get to the TOP 3 spots, you need to bid $10 CPM. Do you still want that place in the TOP 3 positions? Can you make it profitable?

$10 CPM = $10 per 1000 visits

In order to make it break even, you will need 10 conversions from 1000 visits, that means a Conversion per View of 1% or a Conversion per Click (CR) of 20% taking into account you have a 5% CTR in your lander.

In traffic sources where there's no bid distribution map or data about how bidders are positioned in the queue, how do you calculate the ideal bid when launching? Do you have a table with GEO-Avg Bid or something like that?

 

[bryan]

Great question and this is something I wanted to explain in the update but i'll explain it now.

So when I'm optimizing my campaigns, specifically talking about targets there are a few things I consider.

1. target has bot/fake traffic? then I just block it
2. target converts but losing money (ROI less than maybe -70%), probably pause it too
3. target converts but losing money (ROI above -50%) keep it running and test more angles or try to adjust bids or get a better offer that pays more before pausing it
4. target converts and is profitable, DON'T PAUSE IT of course

So in this case, if i think there are a few targets with potential that maybe are losing money but I can still split test offers, angles or even offer payouts from different networks, I'll not pause it because as you mention it, I want it to be there when testing all those variations instead of losing more potential volume.

Also a key thing about getting pay bumps is bringing as much volume as possible, so if a target still loses money (e.g. -10% ROI) or it's breaking even I won't pause it at all just to have more volume and conversions.

Clear right now, many thanks

 

[servandosilva]

Hey @servandosilva amazing post! Really looking forward for the second update.

I am curious about the bidding. Do you always launch a campaign being one of the TOP 3 bidders for that targeting? As you mentioned you're not profitable so often being below the 3rd position.

Let's say you have an offer with a payout of $1 and you are launching in the US where in order to get to the TOP 3 spots, you need to bid $10 CPM. Do you still want that place in the TOP 3 positions? Can you make it profitable?

$10 CPM = $10 per 1000 visits

In order to make it break even, you will need 10 conversions from 1000 visits, that means a Conversion per View of 1% or a Conversion per Click (CR) of 20% taking into account you have a 5% CTR in your lander.

In traffic sources where there's no bid distribution map or data about how bidders are positioned in the queue, how do you calculate the ideal bid when launching? Do you have a table with GEO-Avg Bid or something like that?

In Zeropark, I always launch it in the top 2-3 spots.
In other traffic sources it's different. In many of them you need to be around the average and that should be enough. Or buying traffic below average could work too. Depend son your offer.

$10 CPM on pop traffic is not common, but I have had a couple of campaigns in Zeropark last year where my CPM was $7 and up to $27 and I was profitable (more than $30 was not profitable for me anymore).

If some people pay $10 CPM why do you think it happens? It's definitely not because they're losing money. If you have the right offer you could pay more than that although again, not very common on pop traffic unless you're targeting specific carriers, OS, etc. which convert really well.

Finally, yes, there are many traffic sources where you can't see the volume and bids. That's why you have a manager

 

[ironbull]

In Zeropark, I always launch it in the top 2-3 spots.
In other traffic sources it's different. In many of them you need to be around the average and that should be enough. Or buying traffic below average could work too. Depend son your offer.

$10 CPM on pop traffic is not common, but I have had a couple of campaigns in Zeropark last year where my CPM was $7 and up to $27 and I was profitable (more than $30 was not profitable for me anymore).

If some people pay $10 CPM why do you think it happens? It's definitely not because they're losing money. If you have the right offer you could pay more than that although again, not very common on pop traffic unless you're targeting specific carriers, OS, etc. which convert really well.

Finally, yes, there are many traffic sources where you can't see the volume and bids. That's why you have a manager

Thanks for your reply! What's the thing that in ZeroPark makes you be in those 3 top spots and not in other networks? Is it because there is not that many advertisers? because the traffic is cheap? or because the traffic is high quality?

The thing is...let's imagine you are promoting an app install offer that pays you $0.30 and there are people using the same traffic source with the same targeting with offers that pay 10x or 20x more (pin submit antivirus). How can you compete in bids against those guys if they are willing to bid more because their offers pay way more than yours?

 

[DoubleDouble]

Thanks man.

a) I think I mentioned this but geos are tier 2 and tier 3 for this test. Tier 1 can work very well to so it's not something I avoid.

b) Yes and yes. Right now I'm moving between the 2nd and 1st bid for this case study in all the campaigns I'm testing. Bid number 3 also works if the geo has a lot of volume. I have had some profitable campaigns being Bid 4 or 5 but it was not common.

c) I mentioned what's working after checking Adplexity. The verticals are sweepstakes, utility apps and all around that. Those are the same I launched.

You are right, I re read over your post and saw the information. But thanks for putting it out there again.

regarding teh optimization you mentioned you test

~100x of the offer value for a campaign test
and 10x per day test.

At what point would you say no to the campaign and back to the drawing board. I am sure I am not along in getting stuck at this bit and sucked into an offer that cant win

 

[Sudhanshu Tripathi]

Hey guys I am Started with Zeropark I earned $70 after burning $180 please suggest me some Verticals and Geo that performed well at Zeropark and Suggest should I run On PPV aur Banner Ads because PPV is much expensive . I am running Smartlinks offers .
Thanks

 

[DoubleDouble]

Hey guys I am Started with Zeropark I earned $70 after burning $180 please suggest me some Verticals and Geo that performed well at Zeropark and Suggest should I run On PPV aur Banner Ads because PPV is much expensive . I am running Smartlinks offers .
Thanks

As Servando pointed out at the start of the thread, he used a spy tool (Adplexity) to see what was running in T2/T3 choosing some offers and going from there. The main feedback that you are going to get is to test and try for yourself. The fact that someone like @servandosilva is taking time out their schedule to write a thread like this is pure gold in its own right. There are other forums (which are also very excellent) where you would pay a princely sum for such advice.

 

[servandosilva]

Thanks for your reply! What's the thing that in ZeroPark makes you be in those 3 top spots and not in other networks? Is it because there is not that many advertisers? because the traffic is cheap? or because the traffic is high quality?

The thing is...let's imagine you are promoting an app install offer that pays you $0.30 and there are people using the same traffic source with the same targeting with offers that pay 10x or 20x more (pin submit antivirus). How can you compete in bids against those guys if they are willing to bid more because their offers pay way more than yours?

The way they distribute the traffic depending on your bid is what makes me bid on those positions. Other networks distribute the traffic in a different way.

As for your other question, if your app install pays $0.3 and it doesn't convert well, then why run it? If everybody else is running pin submits then you should run them too.

However, app installs and pin submits CR is very different. they might have an offer that pays them 10x more than your offer, but your app install could convert at a 25% CR while their offer only converts at 2% because it's a pin submit.

So at the end you're not really competing against something that just pays 20x more than you.

 

[servandosilva]

You are right, I re read over your post and saw the information. But thanks for putting it out there again.

regarding teh optimization you mentioned you test

~100x of the offer value for a campaign test
and 10x per day test.

At what point would you say no to the campaign and back to the drawing board. I am sure I am not along in getting stuck at this bit and sucked into an offer that cant win

If I'm spending 10x-20x per day and see no conversions within the first 2-3 days I'm back to the drawing board.

Also, if after several days of working I'm still at -80% ROI or less I go back to the drawing board. Otherwise, if I see ROI is growing every day I just keep optimizing.

 

[servandosilva]

Hey guys I am Started with Zeropark I earned $70 after burning $180 please suggest me some Verticals and Geo that performed well at Zeropark and Suggest should I run On PPV aur Banner Ads because PPV is much expensive . I am running Smartlinks offers .
Thanks

Spent $180 and got $70 back? that's a good initial result.

As for your question, I already mentioned it a couple times before.

 

[comegetbravo]

The way they distribute the traffic depending on your bid is what makes me bid on those positions. Other networks distribute the traffic in a different way.

As for your other question, if your app install pays $0.3 and it doesn't convert well, then why run it? If everybody else is running pin submits then you should run them too.

However, app installs and pin submits CR is very different. they might have an offer that pays them 10x more than your offer, but your app install could convert at a 25% CR while their offer only converts at 2% because it's a pin submit.

So at the end you're not really competing against something that just pays 20x more than you.

Servando, do you think that antivirus PIN submits is a vertical you'd recommend to a newbie? I've been doing it for quite some time now and I can only get campaigns to $20/day profit with heavy whitelist targeting (popads).

 

[ironbull]

The way they distribute the traffic depending on your bid is what makes me bid on those positions. Other networks distribute the traffic in a different way.

As for your other question, if your app install pays $0.3 and it doesn't convert well, then why run it? If everybody else is running pin submits then you should run them too.

However, app installs and pin submits CR is very different. they might have an offer that pays them 10x more than your offer, but your app install could convert at a 25% CR while their offer only converts at 2% because it's a pin submit.

So at the end you're not really competing against something that just pays 20x more than you.

Ok gotcha! So do you usually place a bid in your traffic source where at least you can spend let's say 3 figures per day (for example, $200 per 24h) in order to see if the offer has potential and space to scale (to make back (after optimization), at least low 3 figures per day ($100-$150 profit per 24h)?

 

[comegetbravo]

Ok gotcha! So do you usually place a bid in your traffic source where at least you can spend let's say 3 figures per day (for example, $200 per 24h) in order to see if the offer has potential and space to scale (to make back, at least low 3 figures per day ($100 per 24h)?

-50% ROI on the first initial testing would mean that this campaign has HUGE potential, expect -70-80% ROI on first day and you could probably make it profitable in a couple of days.

 

[DoubleDouble]

If I'm spending 10x-20x per day and see no conversions within the first 2-3 days I'm back to the drawing board.

Also, if after several days of working I'm still at -80% ROI or less I go back to the drawing board. Otherwise, if I see ROI is growing every day I just keep optimizing.

thanks - as a follow up to that. I ran a campaign recently (antivirus in VN) i got to the point where it was in profitable ROI day on day, but I found that i began to really struggle with volume at that point. (5 days into optimizing) what would be your advice at then, is that the point that i put the campaign into maintenance mode and start scaling with other sources?

 

[comegetbravo]

thanks - as a follow up to that. I ran a campaign recently (antivirus in VN) i got to the point where it was in profitable ROI day on day, but I found that i began to really struggle with volume at that point. (5 days into optimizing) what would be your advice at then, is that the point that i put the campaign into maintenance mode and start scaling with other sources?

We're probably running the same campaign, hit me up on skype if you'd like some tips!

 

[Sudhanshu Tripathi]

yeah i know its not very bad for starting but the main problem is smartlink optimization

 

[servandosilva]

Servando, do you think that antivirus PIN submits is a vertical you'd recommend to a newbie? I've been doing it for quite some time now and I can only get campaigns to $20/day profit with heavy whitelist targeting (popads).

If you want to do more you'll need many traffic sources, not just popads. Also, whitelisting reduces your volume a lot.

 

[servandosilva]

thanks - as a follow up to that. I ran a campaign recently (antivirus in VN) i got to the point where it was in profitable ROI day on day, but I found that i began to really struggle with volume at that point. (5 days into optimizing) what would be your advice at then, is that the point that i put the campaign into maintenance mode and start scaling with other sources?

If the traffic source has no more volume even if you increase the bids, it's time to scale to other traffic sources.

 

[servandosilva]

Ok gotcha! So do you usually place a bid in your traffic source where at least you can spend let's say 3 figures per day (for example, $200 per 24h) in order to see if the offer has potential and space to scale (to make back (after optimization), at least low 3 figures per day ($100-$150 profit per 24h)?

That's up to each person, but if i don't see potential for 4 figures per day spending or at least 3 figures I don't focus my time on it anymore.