Does google look for number of pages in PR?

[Eric]

Hi all,

I noticed that my sites with more than 40 pages got a lift in PR last update, but those with less pages, even though they have solid backlinks, got nothing.

Maybe this says that a tough internal link structure can score big points.

 

[crowebird]

maybe the backlink sites PR went down also. My site has like 6 pages and went up 2 PR

 

[pinyo]

Remember that large site has internal pages link to each other also helps with PR. My site has over 10,000 pages link to the home page. I am sure this help with PR. Sites with less pages will not have that kind of linking power.

 

[smeagain]

It is possible to use all the pages within a site to maximise each others PR, but it is very complex.

This PDF explains interelationships but is a bit complex. If you dont fully understand the maths involved, you will get the principle:

http://netsavy.net/Graphics/PageRank.pdf

 

[lovely]

I think this is how google do it.
Google find sites through an autonomous program called “crawls, Once it has scanned one page, it scans another, usually by going through one of the sites link. Once it has arrived at its destination, it starts the scanning process all over again.

Once google has scanned a large number of web pages, it sends back to the google master server the links it has found and their quantities. Most of the pages are “cached†or saved and stored in the google doc servers.

http://cs.brown.edu/~avarotsi/SearchEngines.HTML

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Without going and reading the papers referred to it works like this.

Every page created has a built in page rank of one. It does not show as PR1 because google does not know about it. Also PR0 pages are not necessarrily PR0 as PR does not go up in incriments of whole numbers, it runs on a sliding scale to many digits. ie pr 2 could be pr2.00000000000001 or it could be PR2.99999999999999. so there can almost be PR 1 difference on pages showing the same PR. Also to throw a spanner in the works PR does not go up to 10, it goes up to 11, wel 10.99999recurring anyhow.

Anyhow, each page can 'vote' up to 85% of its base Pr so a PR 10 page has PR8.5 to vote away. The value of the outgoing links is like this PR*.85 divided by the number of outgoing links. This is not absolute, as a page does not always vote away all its PR, as there are other factors. but lets look at it like this.

page one has PR4 = pr3.4 voting power. if this links to one page, then all of its Pr is going to be passed to that page. If that page links to only one page, then it is going to be voting all ITS Pr onto the next page. By daisychaning this way , and structuring your linking over vast sites, you can ammass PR back to the home page (or any page for that matter).

Keep in mind though that PR is NOT relevancy, and people search for words, while PR is a number. Page rank is becoming less and less important in the algo, so the benefit you get from PR manipulation, is far outwegighed by the loss of Internal link benefit for SEO.

 

[Paul_KY]

To all who will listen...

Stop giving a :censored: about PR! The SEO, "Gurus" are going out of business. PR is dying a slow death since Nov 2003, IMHO.

Do you want to get your site's ranked in the top 10-20? I'm almost ready to do it for free, just to p*ss off the so called SEO, "Gurus" out there.

PM me

Eric, Speak up!

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Paul, I totally agree with you about ignoring PR, although I am not sure where all this anger towards SEO 'gurus' comes from (I hate that word, what is a guru anyhow :roll: )

There is a HUGE problem with SEO, the main one being that there is no cleart definition of what it is all about. Surely your not saying that Usability is worthless? or that copywriting is worthless? etc, there are many things that make up what a quality SEM will do with your site to help you make more money from it.

The problem is that anyone can set themselves up as an seo. many do, they buy a copy of Webposgold or IBP etc and call themselves SEO's without having a single piece of understanding about internet marketing or any of the other elements.

 

[Paul_KY]

"although I am not sure where all this anger towards SEO 'gurus' comes from"

Anger? lol

Well, perhaps it does annoy me to see some newbie's spend thousands of dollars (Or thousands of hours designing their sites, based around some, "Johnny Jackleg’s†advice), only to have their time and money wasted. I guess I'm kind of a crusader lol. I know things change too rapidly for their to be some, "SEO Bible".

It also disturbs me to hear one take advice from some so called, "SEO Guru", and then build their site's based on SEO rather their audience or their objective (Yeah, perhaps they’ll have instant results, but long term failure, IMHO). These poor souls, for the most part, end up failing miserably, and then end up feeling bitter.

Reaching one's desired SE rankings is really not all that complicated...

Trial

&

Error

As for all of the scientific theories... :roll: It's really not all that scientific. I truly do LMAO @ all of the SEO e-books out there, for sale.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen on any msg board, someone come out saying, "I'm a SEO Guru" lol. I usually just pick it up when they come off, "Scientific" about the process :wink: Or when they speak as if they’re a Google employee LOL.

Plan your site/sites for the long term. Design your site they way YOU want it designed. Sure, one needs to have decent navigation and page titles, but all the PR this – PR that, I’m just not buying it, long term. The SE’s are on to the fact we’re, “On†to them. They want relevant listings, not a listings designed to manipulate their ALGOs.

Keep building new pages, which are specific to 2-3 keywords. Make the content original and make it blend well with your keywords, without going overboard. Keep making new sites/pages. Eventually the SE's will find you. And if you have tons of sites/pages, ahhhhh...a simple RELEVANT link from one of those sites/pages will get your new site/page spidered within weeks, if not days, IMHO.

Again, this is JMHO based on my own experience and those who share the same experience.

Best of Luck to All! :thumbup:

 

[OldWelshGuy]

I am glad you have said that, s it is something I promote constantly. Design for your users, but with the search engines in mind. Never design a site for the search engines, as what is bread today, is water tomorrow.

There are basic things that will get you good search engine rankings, and the funny thing is, every one of them will help you convert your visitors into buyers. navigation is key to good conversions, being able to find things easily. Good clear informationa at all times is key to conversions. Good page titles, good informative anchor text links, well laid out pages, clear simple information on the page specific to a topic. ALL of these help people make buying decisions, and they are also exactly what helps you rank in the search engines.

 

[Paul_KY]

"I am glad you have said that, s it is something I promote constantly. Design for your users, but with the search engines in mind. Never design a site for the search engines, as what is bread today, is water tomorrow."

Excellent! So NO one has to pay your firm THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars, for uncertainty. Their money would be better spent on PPC, or, even less, common sense. What a :censored: bargain!

Also, Google Guy, at WMF, IMHO spoke of SEO as a form of SE Spam. Again, relevant content rules. And those whom make money with that relevant content cash large checks, or receive HUGE direct deposits.

It's all becoming much clearer to me, and I hope to all.

Thanks for clearing that up for the new guy/gals on the block.

Regards,

Paul

 

[OldWelshGuy]

SEO is NOT a black art, it is something that can be learned like any other skill. The main difference is that if you mess up a design you lose sales, mess up SEo efforts and you can get yourself banned. There are many many good resources on the web for site promostion, usability, optimisation and promotion, but for each 'good' site there are probably a hundred or more 'hack' sites, run by people who do not have a clue, and are in fact pushing people to do things that willl actually harm the site.

Most businesses have one of two elements available, money, and time, rarely do they have both. If a business person has the time, then they are always advised by myself (and the other people with whom I associate) to have a go themselves. We try to keep them away from the dark side, and help them for free as much as possible. If someone has not a lot of money then I would suggest an in depth report in plain English that will tell them how to optimise the site.

Forums such as this one are a boon to new webmasters/business people, and I do try to help as much as possible. I was fortunate in as much as when I sarted using the web, there was not that much competition for positions etc, so I pretty much learned as I went along. Today competition is hard in a lot of areas, but unless you are talking about black hat stuff, IP delivered content etc, then with time the webmaster should see some results.

One thing though Some phrases are simply too competitive for organic SEO to be viable, and for this reason it can often be a better alternative to use PPC. Any SEO who does not use PPC as part of the web marketing package is not that up on things IMO.

 

[Paul_KY]

IMHO, SEO is a natural, "Process", not a, "Skill".

One common trait, and yes, perhaps I'm taking a shot here, of SEOs, is to use the word, "BANNED". :yikes: I'm not sure if it's an industry wide scare tactic, but it must work. IMHO, if you design your site for your audience and your objective, steering clear of all SEO tactics (Excluding the obvious), you'll do fine, just fine. And don’t be so frightened about being, “BANNED†lol! There are plenty of search engines to go around. 5 Years ago, AltaVista/Excite was king and inclusion into the Yahoo directory was a MUST. Oh how times have changed… :flipof: R.I.P. Alta Vista :blue:

"SEO is NOT a black art"

Although the search engines have stated publicly, they regard this is SE, "Spam", I'd still have to agree with you on that. That is, if you're in the <Guess> 5%, "Legit" group. The other 95%, which take one's money, produces little or no results, or even gets the site blacklisted (Links from link farms, etc.) have given the industry a black eye.

"Any SEO who does not use PPC as part of the web marketing package is not that up on things IMO."

I would agree that any, "Complete" online marketing plan would be laughable without PPC included, but I'm not sure where PPC and SEO correlate. Unless the SEOs are now calling themselves, "Online Marketing Consultants". Again, PPC is a vital component to a healthy online marketing plan.