WordTracker GTrends

[Adammo]

Hi all,

Not sure if this belongs in this forum on not.

As embarrassed as I am I never clicked on the graph in the GTrends tool before. It recommends that the Google competition be less than 30,000. I was just curious if anyone had any success going a little bit higher than 30,000? To me it seems really low especially when multiple words are involved.

For example, if I were to do a niche "hockey jerseys", I would be way over the 30,000 (890,000 returned). But I believe that both "hockey" and "jersey" are being searched in the entire document in the 890,000 results. If I had a website dedicated to "hockey jerseys" and an individual performed a search "hockey jerseys" (without quotes), wouldn't I be one of the results listed closer to the top?

Thanks!

 

[Linda Buquet]

If I had a website dedicated to "hockey jerseys" and an individual performed a search "hockey jerseys" (without quotes), wouldn't I be one of the results listed closer to the top?

No if someone searched for hockey jerseys (without quotes)
you would be competing with 1,100,000 pages.

237,000 pages are optimized for allintitle: "hockey jerseys".
That means they have the exact phrase in their page title.

So you would be competing with 237,000 pages targeting that phrase, so chances are your new site or blog with no inbound links would be buried somewhere like page 15,000 or 23,000 where no one could possibly find you. Most people don't search beyond the 2nd page of the search results.

Search engines use a wide variety of criteria to rank sites and it's very hard for new sites to get ranked near the top, especially with terms that competitive.

Moving this thread to the SEO forum.

 

[Adammo]

Thanks Linda, makes sense.

I did some more keyword research and found a niche that I am very excited about and passed the gtrends criteria. The search term is 3 words and had less than 30000 competition (26000), and a hits/day greater than 100 (218). But when I search the 3 word term in google I get 17 million results. Since I passed on GTrends, is this still an ok niche?

Thanks!!

No if someone searched for hockey jerseys (without quotes)
you would be competing with 1,100,000 pages.

237,000 pages are optimized for allintitle: "hockey jerseys".
That means they have the exact phrase in their page title.

So you would be competing with 237,000 pages targeting that phrase, so chances are your new site or blog with no inbound links would be buried somewhere like page 15,000 or 23,000 where no one could possibly find you. Most people don't search beyond the 2nd page of the search results.

Search engines use a wide variety of criteria to rank sites and it's very hard for new sites to get ranked near the top, especially with terms that competitive.

Moving this thread to the SEO forum.

 

[Linda Buquet]

Since I passed on GTrends, is this still an ok niche?

Sorry don't really know what "Since I passed on GTrends" means?

I think the Google number you see in Gtrends is in "quotes" and the 17 million result you got is probably without quotes. Is that right?

What is it with allintitle: "key phrase in quotes"

Is it a subject that can be monetized? That has products people looking for the niche would be interested in and products that have affiliate programs?

(Keep it under wraps if it's a good one. Don't list good niches in forums. Tons of people with experience could jump right on it before you even get started.)

 

[Adammo]

Sorry don't really know what "Since I passed on GTrends" means?

I think the Google number you see in Gtrends is in "quotes" and the 17 million result you got is probably without quotes. Is that right?

What is it with allintitle: "key phrase in quotes"

Is it a subject that can be monetized? That has products people looking for the niche would be interested in and products that have affiliate programs?

(Keep it under wraps if it's a good one. Don't list good niches in forums. Tons of people with experience could jump right on it before you even get started.)

It looks like you are correct, when I do the search in google with quotes it comes out to a number that is only off by 1,000. I won't post the subject either .

In summary:

- Google search with quotes ~ 25,000
- GTrends ~ 26,000
- allintitle: "phrase in quotes" ~ 77,500
- regular Google search, no quotes: 17,400,000

My main concern is the amount without quotes in Google. I know myself I don't use quotes or allintitle for regular searches. I'm a bit concerned that people won't find my site with 17,400,00 results.

The subject can be monetized. I've already seen a few merchants that offer affiliate programs with product related to my niche. The only worry I have is my niche is a bit seasonal, but I think that I can always find another niche for another day.

How do those numbers look to you? I think I may finally be ready to start coding and stuff but wanted to see if they jumped out at you.

Thanks again for your patience .

 

[Linda Buquet]

WEIRD! allintitle is bigger than quotes. That's been happening to me on a few searches lately too. One of the numbers is off and Google has a glitch. There is no way there can be more allintitle than in quotes. It's mathematically impossible.

I know we had the little talk about PMing me, but before you go off and build a site, if you are really serious about this niche, PM it to me and let me check it out for you 1st.

 

[Linda Buquet]

My main concern is the amount without quotes in Google. I know myself I don't use quotes or allintitle for regular searches. I'm a bit concerned that people won't find my site with 17,400,00 results.

How do those numbers look to you? I think I may finally be ready to start coding and stuff but wanted to see if they jumped out at you.

The numbers: I only get 18 searches a day in Wordtracker. So maybe wordtracker can tell you are from Canada and is giving you Canadian results and I'm just getting US results. I didn't realize WT parsed by location though. But I'd say 18 is too low a number to build a site around.
Now if there are 218 searches in Canada, then maybe but see below.

The other concern I have is that if you Google with allintitle - check out the top 10 sites that come up. Most are news sites and established sites that are going to be hard to compete with. (Older domains with the most links, with the keywords in the domain name and the best SEO are ranked at the top.)

Re raw search, vs quotes, vs allintitle. You are right everyone searches with raw phrases, hardly anyone uses quotes and no one except people like us (marketers) use allintitle.

The reason you research this way though is... Raw search can be any of the separate keywords anywhere on the page. So if the keyphrase you are optimizing for is "little green widgets" and it's in your title and a few times on your page, your main competition is all the other pages that also have that EXACT phrase in their title.

If there were 17 million competing for little green widgets without quotes, one page for example could be about a "little" girl. Further down the page she eats some "green" grapes and at the bottom of the page asked Mommy, what's a "widget." If the searcher entered little green widgets without quotes, Google knows the page about the little girl is NOT as targeted as a page that has that exact phrase in that order in the title of the page. Google tries to give the most relevant results.

Therefore the number of pages you are ACTUALLY competing with and want to evaluate are the ones with your exact phrase in the title, even though people will search for the raw phrase without quotes.

Then all the pages with your exact phrase in the title, Google orders based on a proprietary combination of things including: Number of inbound links, best SEO, domain age, keywords in the domain name and some other factors.

(When you put the phase in quotes it forces it to be the exact phase, in that exact order. When you use allintitle plus phrase in quotes it will only show you how many pages have that exact phrase in the title.)

Does that make sense? I'm sick and spacey and don't know if I explained that very well.

 

[Adammo]

Hi Linda,

Makes perfect sense, thanks for looking while being sick!

I get the number 18 as well, but am confused what that means. When I perform the search and click on the graph button in the right hand column it pops up and says if I am the #1 position I can expect 228 per day. So any idea why it says only 18 searches per day yet I can expect 228 visits per day if I am #1?

Thanks again!

The numbers: I only get 18 searches a day in Wordtracker. So maybe wordtracker can tell you are from Canada and is giving you Canadian results and I'm just getting US results. I didn't realize WT parsed by location though. But I'd say 18 is too low a number to build a site around.
Now if there are 218 searches in Canada, then maybe but see below.

The other concern I have is that if you Google with allintitle - check out the top 10 sites that come up. Most are news sites and established sites that are going to be hard to compete with. (Older domains with the most links, with the keywords in the domain name and the best SEO are ranked at the top.)

Re raw search, vs quotes, vs allintitle. You are right everyone searches with raw phrases, hardly anyone uses quotes and no one except people like us (marketers) use allintitle.

The reason you research this way though is... Raw search can be any of the separate keywords anywhere on the page. So if the keyphrase you are optimizing for is "little green widgets" and it's in your title and a few times on your page, your main competition is all the other pages that also have that EXACT phrase in their title.

If there were 17 million competing for little green widgets without quotes, one page for example could be about a "little" girl. Further down the page she eats some "green" grapes and at the bottom of the page asked Mommy, what's a "widget." If the searcher entered little green widgets without quotes, Google knows the page about the little girl is NOT as targeted as a page that has that exact phrase in that order in the title of the page. Google tries to give the most relevant results.

Therefore the number of pages you are ACTUALLY competing with and want to evaluate are the ones with your exact phrase in the title, even though people will search for the raw phrase without quotes.

Then all the pages with your exact phrase in the title, Google orders based on a proprietary combination of things including: Number of inbound links, best SEO, domain age, keywords in the domain name and some other factors.

(When you put the phase in quotes it forces it to be the exact phase, in that exact order. When you use allintitle plus phrase in quotes it will only show you how many pages have that exact phrase in the title.)

Does that make sense? I'm sick and spacey and don't know if I explained that very well.

 

[Linda Buquet]

OHHHHH I see where you got that 218 number. I never look at "Actual Visitors From #1 in Google/day". That's how many visitors you could get if you were #1 and I don't know how they come up with that number but most people will never get to the #1 spot anyway, so just ignore that.

What we want to know is how many people SEARCH for the phrase. So you only want to use that number that comes up on the 1st screen, not the one after you click on the graph.

I was pretty sure that number was international, so yes 18 searches is really pretty low to build a site for. Don't think you'd get enough traffic. If you did a sports site or some type of niche Hockey site, it would be worth building a couple pages for, but I don't think building out a whole site would be worth it, especially with the fairly high competition.

 

[Adammo]

Bummer! I thought it could actually work. Back to the drawing board .

Thanks again!

 

[Adammo]

Hi Linda,

Sorry to bump this. If the GTrends tool is not performing with accurate results, is there another tool that I could use?

 

[Linda Buquet]

No I didn't say the Gtrends tool wasn't working right. What I meant is that one particular number you looked at on the 2nd page (how many visitors you'll get being in the #1 spot), I don't use that number and don't know how they came up with it. I just use the number on the 1st page, which is how many people are SEARCHING for that number.

There are several different free tools, there is even a Google keyword tool however they are each going to give you totally different sets of numbers which I'm afraid is just going to confuse you even more.

Here's the Google KW tool if you want to try it.
https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal

 

[Adammo]

No I didn't say the Gtrends tool wasn't working right. What I meant is that one particular number you looked at on the 2nd page (how many visitors you'll get being in the #1 spot), I don't use that number and don't know how they came up with it. I just use the number on the 1st page, which is how many people are SEARCHING for that number.

There are several different free tools, there is even a Google keyword tool however they are each going to give you totally different sets of numbers which I'm afraid is just going to confuse you even more.

Here's the Google KW tool if you want to try it.
https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal

Sorry...misunderstood you earlier. I guess i'm confused how there are so few searches...to me it seems like there would be many more.