tabled or tableless (div based) layouts?

[arunpattnaik]

I have seen numerous discussions on the pros and cons of tableless layouts. Still some webmasters believe that div structures are not that semantic and are difficult to manage.

What structure do you use in your sites, if not CMS?

 

[BenjArriola]

I always use tableless css. CMS or not. Still tableless CSS.

 

[forums]

I use tableless, unless I am displaying tabular data. I agree that just using DIVs doesn't make content semantic. Semantic content comes from making use of TITLE, H1 ... H6, lists, strong, emphasis and link content then thinking about the look and feel afterwards.

 

[xhan]

tables are for tables! Simple! grr

Divs are logical, easy and so much prettier!

 

[Gorkfu]

Divs all the way. :good:

My last redesign was from tables to divs. I didn't like divs when I first got into it, but that was a few years ago... After you use them you'll see how much easier it is to go back and edit your code. Tables do look messy after awhile especially when they get so huge, if you let them. :yes: Although their are still some instances I use tables, but that's usually rare for me now. If I do I still control them 100% with CSS as it's so much cleaner.

 

[rhyswynne]

Divs are ideal for layouts, degenerate well, and give so much control. Tables on the other hand should only be used for tables. So, I'm going to have to be another for divs
.

The company I work for started layouts in tables (as I'm sure we all did) when it was formed in 2002, whenever we need to do work on the site, we immediately change it to DIV's

 

[sums123]

I rely on CSS and Divs,with table it is hard to maintain a website.

 

[garima]

Handle site using css,div is difficult ,using table can easily handle , but using using div we can create best website template
_____________________________________________________________________
Web site Design

 

[Shadab]

Love table-less LAYOUTS.

But I don't hesitate to use tables where they are really needed.
(for displaying tabular data : as pointed out by xhan, earlier)

 

[OldWelshGuy]

I am happy with my tables, safe knowing they will render properly in all browsers. Then again I mostly only build for myself so The client is always happy

 

[TheeCommerceConsultant]

I am happy with my tables, safe knowing they will render properly in all browsers.

Agree with that, I think if you have total control of a website then divs are good but if you have to share a project I have found that they are harder to pass on taking alot more time therefore money.

So I will have to go for a beutiful combination of the both, never any more what 3 nested tables and divs for anything dynamic. Really depends on the project, but for cross platform always find that tables perform better.

Then again I do not really build sites any longer so more of an observation.

 

[tb987]

Firstly, I use tables on some of my sites I find them easier and have never really got my head fully round divs. This is bad as it means that potentially one in seven can't access these sites - i.e. losing income UK Webmaster Blogs - SEO & Web Development tips Blog Archive Accessibility Improves Your Bottom Line

And in the UK if you are operating through a company you could get prosectures - nobody has though I believe.

I am happy with my tables, safe knowing they will render properly in all browsers.

Apart from the ones designed for the visually impaired Have a look at this IBM Human Ability and Accessibility Center: aDesigner if you dare?

 

[OldWelshGuy]

I refuse to be told by a government how to build websites. If my choice is not to spend mountains of time and effort making sure my site is accessible to every single person THEY say it must be, then that is MY choice!

The goverment have absolutely no right to remove MY FREEDOM OF CHOICE, to ensure SOME ONE ELSE can view MY SITE!

I truly do not give a rats arse for accessibility laws, the government should spend more time worrying about governing the country than making sure minorities are catered for. Why should my rights be trampled on to secure the rights of others? All this PC crap has gone too far.

ALSO the goverment figures of xxx being disabled are crap. Anyone who has been on the sick ofr 26 weeks automatically gets moved onto invalidity benefit EVEN if they are just waiting for an operation, or physiotherapy etc.

People who are visually impaired will be using screen readers, so what if it doesn't render properly? what next? Will the government make it illegal to design a site that doesn't render in Opera, or firefox, or IE etc?

SAME THING!

[rant over]

 

[tb987]

People who are visually impaired will be using screen readers, so what if it doesn't render properly?

I agree with most of what you are saying, but from a pure commercial perspective the point is they won't buy your stuff as they will leave your site etc According to RNIB it is 2,000,000 (two million) people in the UK have significant sight loss Statistics - numbers of people with sight problems by age group in the UK

What happens when you can't access your own site with YOUR screenreader? Only joking, but eyes do get worse with age and some worse than others.

I need a beer, it's Friday : )

 

[OldWelshGuy]

if they are blind they will not be able to see the products anyhow, so no point in visiting. As a bonus blind people are more likely to click on your adsense in error {OWG knows he will burn in hell for these comments}

 

[Gorkfu]

As a bonus blind people are more likely to click on your adsense in error

{OWG knows he will burn in hell for these comments}

LOL Nice, I haven't laughed so hard in a month.

 

[Dimitar Christoff]

whatever gets the job done for you - you should be able to do both equally well in your head. however, i have been told that from a SEO standpoint, tables are snubbed by SE - not sure why that is or if it's true.

obviously, there are advantages to the CSS positioning that really make it the better choice here for SEO: you can move the content part of your site at the top of the rendered html and your menus at the bottom then swap them around via CSS positioning/float or even javascript. you just cant change the linear flow of a table, perhaps that's what is implied when considered legacy/inferior to DIVs.

 

[alvarez16]

I say tableless

Much better!

 

[myst729]

DIV is friendly with W3C. Table is quite simple, in some condition.

 

[BlueBoden]

I learned to use CSS when i started out, that is, after trying WYSIWYG editors like frontpage. That's years ago now however, and now i code all my pages by hand.

When i finally started to learn hand-coding, i decided to use CSS and divs. Much later i then began to use tables for my charts at brugbart, since it was easier.


I don't really see the point against css, many table designers will say that its hard to create cross-browser compatible sites with pure css, but that's not really the case. Unless you blindly support older browsers.

Even Microsoft knows when to stop supporting older versions of their software, why should we keep supporting them? So far I've only seen poor excuses of market share! We need to change the users way of thinking, in that way that they upgrade their browser as they would upgrade any other software.

A lot of web designers live in the past, and never really seam to move on. Few even have what it takes to actually tell their visitors to upgrade, which would be fair and justified. They for some reason however still live in the whole "what if" line of thinking, and the result is a web which is slown further down, not by browser Dev's, but the people designing their sites for IE6 or even earlier, which gives the user a good reason never to upgrade, and that's where any upgrade is likely to only take place together with a new computer or OS.

The viewable in any browser idea would only be true if we left out most new features, and sticked with tables for simplicity, and i would even say that would be better then using hacks. Because we need some clear and obvious techniques we can use.

The less desired solution, would be limiting our layouts to 1-2 columns, not to mention all the other aspects, such as alpha transparency.

Height shouldn't work as Min-height work in better browsers, etc. Such bugs should be fixed, if they cant be fixed, then its time for the user to upgrade their browser!