Chimp to have Human Rights?

[temi]

He recognises himself in the mirror, plays hide-and-seek and breaks into fits of giggles when tickled. He is also our closest evolutionary cousin.
A group of world leading primatologists argue that this is proof enough that Hiasl, a 26-year-old chimpanzee, deserves to be treated like a human. In a test case in Austria, campaigners are seeking to ditch the 'species barrier' and have taken Hiasl's case to court. If Hiasl is granted human status - and the rights that go with it - it will signal a victory for other primate species and unleash a wave of similar cases.
full story: Court to rule if chimp has human rights | World | The Observer

 

[melkior_inactive]

I have no problem with an animal owning something.
If I buy my dog a new toy, I consider it its, not mine.

But this implies a great deal of other problems.
For instance -- if the chimp gets the human status, suddenly a great deal of laws apply to it. Paying taxes, and suchlike aren't the least of its worries.

Consider this: most countries have laws against people walking around naked. Well if the chimp is considered human, it would need to wear clothes.
And I'm not joking. Austria has severe laws against public nudity.
Its fingerprints would need to be taken, a social security number assigned.
All those things also require a signature what a chimpanzee is incapable of.
One thing is providing the chimp a legal guardian who would let it to live free and manage the money for it, but calling it human would actually be cruel to the animal.
It would just create an enormous amount of difficulties for the chimp to get on with its life.

 

[temi]

Well Melky,
As intelligent as the chim maybe he is not quite as clever as human yet so those example you gave paying tax and wearing Armani will not apply to chimp. I think the people who brought the case just want humans to treat chim with a big more dignity like not useing them for cruel experiements etc

 

[melkior_inactive]

I'm all for it. I love animals, and my personal opinion is that people who hurt or kill animals should be sentenced the same way if as killing a human, if not worse, since most humans can defend themselves and most animals can't.
But declaring it a human would actually cause all the problems I mentioned.
Laws apply to humans, and they would apply to the chimp once pronounced human.
Intelligence isn't the issue here. There are people with special needs whose IQ is way lower due to defects and accidents and we still treat them as equal and we should do so.
The solution to this problem is creating a new legal category for animals like Hiasi. It is complicated, and means changing a few laws and writing some new ones, but in the long run it's a better solution.

 

[temi]

The way I think they should proceed with this is to give the with self awareness (The famouse test for determining this is to hold a mirror in front of the animal, if the animal know that its him or her in the mirror its self aware) a special right not quite equal to that of human beings but as close as possible to stop us exploiting them.

I am not saying animals that are not self aware should then be treated cruelly, they should be treated with dignity as well.

 

[melkior_inactive]

Yes, that is probably the best way.
I studied animal psychology in high school and if I remember well, there are many tests designed for different species which would allow them to make this difference.

 

[funkypilchard]

does this mean that it would be legal to have sex with a chimp?
jesting aside..

I think the most inteligent and awe inspiring animal on earth (maybe more so than humans) is the killer (orca) whale. Here are a few short clips really worth watching. opcorn: I actually can't watch those last three clips again, too disturbing and very sad.

[youtube]W8GaDuCvYbE[/youtube]

[youtube]Z-I40PpmOY4[/youtube]

[youtube]9h1e2zyjkWQ[/youtube]

[youtube]GmYMWIXmaz4[/youtube]

 

[temi]

I think if all the human females have rejected you, you may consider dating a chimp

The righ is just to stop exploiting them not to date them

 

[funkypilchard]

Yes... female monkeys shouldn't mind my furry chest LOL.

Did you watch those vids above Temi?

 

[temi]

Yes, giving how hairy you are the female chimps will love you. For some reason the video did not play, I will try again.

 

[funkypilchard]

lol, I could have a hareem of chimps. Try double clicking on those clips.

 

[temi]

The videos works now the king of the hareem

 

[funkypilchard]

cool.. I have been VERY close to Orca pods in a tiny boat on the Pacific ocean, they came so close to us, one jumped out of the water etc etc... I had not one ounce of fear and yet if I had seen this footage before hand I may have been a little more anxious, they are imense and inteligent beasts, real live sea monsters that hunt in packs.

 

[temi]

Brave man, being near potentialy dangerous creature like Orca is a good preparaion for a man who could one day have a hareem of chimps

 

[funkypilchard]

lol... yes, well I fancy my chances more against a chimp than ten tonne orca, if you watch the clip with the woman on the orca's back it almost looks as if it's bored of the routine and decides to play a game of it's own, surely if it wanted it could have ripped her to shreds in moments.